Discussion about FiveM Global Bans - Server Owner Perspective

FiveM Discussion
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I’ll preface this post by saying that I respect everyones’ opinions, and I’m simply sharing mine in an effort to elicit your opinions/responses. I wasn’t banned, myself, but I know people who were affected by using menus for development on my server. I’ve also read several topics on here and messages on Discord from people in similar situations. In hindsight, there are server sided alternatives to external menus and we should have been using those. I, of course, appreciate FiveM making strides to remove hackers from the game, and I discuss that along with some of the negative impacts I’ve already seen.

Video Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCDQhNwnH5Q

These are all covered in the video, but I’ll summarize my points/thoughts below:

  1. The approach FiveM took to implementing the changes - I think it would good to give a warning in-game not just on Twitter as we don’t all have Twitter and we aren’t necessarily following FiveM on there. A one-time, in-game warning would reduce the impact this had on server owners/staff using external menus to administrate their servers.

  2. Response from forum moderators - specific examples are covered in the video, but there is a very negative, no sympathy attitude coming from FiveM forum moderators directed toward server owners who were affected by this. Of course, we have no way of knowing if people claiming to have been using the menu to ONLY administrate servers are being honest, but why immediately assume they are guilty? There are legitimate uses for external menus. In hindsight, server owners should have been using server sided resources, but the truth of the matter is that not everyone was.

  3. We get a glimpse of the control FiveM is exerting over servers they don’t own - I’m specifically referring to the fact that I’ve seen several posts on Discord and the Forums were people claim they were banned and are now paying for FiveM hosting or VPSs they can no longer access. In short, FiveM can essentially bar you from accessing a server they don’t pay for. Of course, the chances of them doing that for no reason are slim to none, but it’s possible and something to consider. Do we want FiveM to have this much control over servers we pay for? I, personally, would like to see an option in the server config to opt-out of the global ban list so I could allow external menus/banned players to access the server.

Let me know what you think about the recent changes. Would you have implemented these changes the same way? How do you feel, server owners, about the control FiveM has over your server?

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Each tweet from FiveM is displayed on the home screen when you start FiveM.

I sympathize those who may have been using a menu in other ways aside from being malicious, but a ban is a ban. They still injected this into the game, and they should have found alternative methods of administration. EDIT: If we decide to unban everybody because of a sob story they decide to tell, then how effective truly is the anti-cheat system? You should think that through.

If I host a server for a game, but then I get banned in said game, do I have the right to complain? Absolutely not. If I host a call of duty server (when dedicated servers still existed), but then I get banned for aimbotting, I am shit out of luck.

You are using the FiveM client and server. FiveM has complete control. FiveM owns FiveM. FiveM can deny or grant access to usage to whomever.

You put in some effort to this, but I’m sorry, I am going to lock it. This is going to quickly turn into arguments and bashing. The anti-cheat system is in place, it will not be removed, nothing it going to change.

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We had no idea as project staff that server owners went to the lengths to buy a paid hack for GTA:Online and use it on FiveM rather than using (free!) server scripts that already existed for administration purposes (such as EasyAdmin, server-sided trainers with whitelist, etc.).

As said above, there was a warning on the main menu home page, not just on an external Twitter page.

We also had the system in a logging mode for a day before actually starting to ban people to see if anything was wrong while the warning was up - so (since the only known use case was actual cheating) this was considered enough advance warning.

Forum moderation consists of an external group of contributors, not related to the project itself, nor do they represent the official stance of the project.

Reviewing these bans on a case-by-case basis would require massive manpower, and there’s only a few team members that have access to the ban database (two, to be precise - so that the risk of abuse of the system is minimized).

Either way, it should be obvious that paying for a cheat menu (and giving the developer of said menu more and more incentive to allow for the option of ‘ruining FiveM’) where server scripts exist is… kind of excessive.

VPSes have multiple purposes other than running FiveM servers. In addition, the initial bans have a length of only 2 weeks; these intentionally were not made permanent yet in the initial iteration to provide some degree warning to users caught cheating.

This is currently the initial iteration of the anticheat system, a way to disable specific detections or opt-out of enforcement is planned in the future, however it’s unlikely that enforcement of ‘paid cheats’ will be allowed to be disabled since this effectively entails paying for FiveM-related content which is against the FiveM ToS (and unfair to other players who do not have the option to pay - at best it’ll be tied to the global script hook option).

Again, having a specific class of servers that allows banned players to play (or worse, allowing people to unban specific players for only their servers) would not contribute positively to the overall health of the FiveM ecosystem.

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This guy makes a lot of good points in his video, I am also concerned why his post was Unlisted (as its great contructive feedback, it was unlisted even before anyone could see it on the ‘feeling’ it would start arguments, why is a platform so afraid of feedback?). He is right about a lot of the things he says and makes good constructive points. I believe the global ban list was not implemented properly and it is definitely overstepping by forcing all servers to use it without any option in the config, there should also be some warning system like he said, blanket banning 1 person for having a trainer once is ridiculous. Ultimately, in my opinion, FiveM controlling global bans seems too much, but who am I to speak it’s your platform and we don’t really have any say.

As a platform, you should make sure the creators who create content for it are happy and aren’t being completely policed by this platform, the more exertion of power FiveM has over servers, the more damaging it will be to the FiveM ecosystem. Servers should have choices and freedoms if they feel they don’t they will just stop making content on the platform. Not a great way of growing a community or “ecosystem” as you put it. This community and its leaders have an attitude of “If you don’t like it leave or stop playing” that’s the type of attitude that leads to failure. Listen to your audience and stop acting so higher-than-thou or people will leave the platform

He also showed screenshots of mod’s behavior on the forum, after seeing many mods posts on this forum a lot (not all) are very condescending, unconstructive, and unprofessional. Mods need to start improving how they act.

@Briglair

You are using the FiveM client and server. FiveM has complete control. FiveM owns FiveM. FiveM can deny or grant access to usage to whomever.

The thing is FiveM doesn’t own anything they are using R**'s property. So they are just putting up a hypocritical attitude by saying “it’s our platform and you must follow these rules”. When they are blatantly breaking R**'s rules, I don’t see them following R**'s rules? The whole idea of a platform is just that, it’s to give a platform for others. So FiveM should not act as if they own everything and can control everyone, it is just common sense. I would understand if they made all the content, but they simply don’t own any of it. There should be a level of freedom and it seems FiveM is starting to creep into restricting everything. From server licenses, to now global bans, it’s just starting.

@dubnium

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sigh

no, no and no again, thats not how anything works, FiveM is not “breaking” R* Rules.
I’m not even going to bother with the rest as its all the same arguments, and the answer to most of them is “no”, anyway.

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I honestly don’t know why the moderator closed this topic, maybe he/she thought it was the right thing to do, the truth being, the topic itself would quickly turn into arguments, etc. While that’s already stated, the thread was listed again by one of the elements a couple hours after. Not to also mention that most of us are just humans voluntarily contributing to said project and we might make wrong decisions at given times which is nothing to be ashamed of.

While I can’t deny that he’s right and makes constructive points, do please note that the global ban list is in its first iteration/early stages, remember that the project is open source and anyone can contribute with ideas, we’re always open to suggestions. Sure some people may not have been aware, but prior to such event people were notified on the FiveM landing homepage, which displays the twitter messages.

As a platform, we should also make sure that said server communities and whoever is creating content for them stay happy and aren’t being completely destroyed by cheaters that join any server with a menu, attach objects to other players and blow everyone up. I pretty much despise people who try to ruin a game by simply being a lucrative cheat provider or anything of that nature, but I, however, sympathize with those that look for exploits and report them in order for them to be fixed.

Again, as @dubnium said in the previous post, that’s meant to be improved in the future and many people have the chance to make their own trainers or to simply download one from the forums and implement it on their server, which seems like a far better solution than downloading something off the internet that may contain malware being executed upon injection and whatnot.

It’s a bit more complicated than that but most of the rules are there for a reason, how would you feel if your favorite game that you bought on Steam were to be riddled with cheaters one week after due to a couple of cheat providers making income out of it and not supporting the game in any possible way, not even reporting exploits (i.e: CS:GO as an example, completely ruined). See, by deterring such and having a specific set of rules that some people might not like one can protect that game everyone loves and keep it eco-friendly for everyone else.

Things will get better as time goes on, this is just for everyone’s well-being.

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Well said. 20 chars max

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Thank you for sharing your feedback and taking the time to respond. Ultimately, I made this video because I was frustrated by the moderators responses and that my own development has been temporarily slowed by no fault on your part.

You already addresses the moderators comments and how they don’t represent FiveM, so I won’t touch on that.

In making the video, I somehow overlooked the fact that the Twitter posts are listed on the homepage. This should have been enough warning and you can bet I’ll start checking it.

Fortunately, I wasn’t banned because I didn’t inject anything, but there were some who did fail so see the warning and then injected for use on their own servers. At this point, I agree you couldn’t have given them more warning.

Lastly, I now understand the logic behind not wanting to allow certain severs to opt-out. I was only thinking of this as a temporary solution for server owners who got banned, so they could still access their server, in the meantime. I see from looking at the long-term it would cause more problems.

At the end of the day, I don’t want hackers in FiveM and if that means some legit (read misguided) server owners got affected for a few weeks then so be it. It’s frustrating when your own server is impacted, though.

In any case, I do appreciate your response and wish you and the FiveM development team the best!

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I highly appreciate the substantial response, the first I’ve really ever seen on the forum. I’ve never seen an element respond to subjects like these, most moderators responses are vague, condescending, misleading, and plain lacking care, or willpower to explain things properly. I was unaware that moderators have no respresentation of fivem, so this was probably the reason for all the conflicting information. It is now more clear FiveM’s stance coming from someone who represents fivem

You have reponded to a lot of my points and the authors points really well, thank you. I have gained a newfound respect for the FiveM creators.

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Even if everyone has already done it, im going to respond me too.

The warning in game was given! All the tweets appear in the main page of fivem when you start it up.

Server owners should really not use this kind of menus, not only they are founding a project to make more hack tools for fivem, but they are also cheating themselves, breaking the rules of their own servers? Doesnt really make sense to use injected menus.

Forum moderators were instructed to close all the topics regusrding bans, as even the ban message itself says no one can assist you.

No, there arent! If a rule is out in place, you follw it, no matter what.

Does steam care if you cannot play your favourite game you paid for cause you have been vac banned? No. Why should FiveM then?

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I do not see the point in using a injected menu? But the Lamda and Trainer are fine? I think those are more than enough for the servers. Other menus that offer crash and other malicious options are not needed. Create or use a menu without those. Because server owners like me that have some idiot join our server and spawn UFO, objects on us, explosions on people and crashing the server are stupid. It is needed and I am happy they did this so far.

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@_FiveM got banned for 2 week now because they think i been cheating but I have the special need like mid learning disability and epilepsy but I don’t know any software for a cheat. been play on five over 5 days now until this happen I don’t cheat I am, good player, banned to be remove

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Once you get banned. You are banned. Not even the fivem mods can help you after you get globally banned.

Also

Why tell people you have a disability. Is it for pitty or something? Nobody needs to know that. Telling them that will change their mind 0%.

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No I am now seriously aboutspecial need I was born with it so you think I am lie about my special need.

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We’re not saying that, we’re saying having a disability won’t effect anything about getting your ban undone (It’s impossible). Not trying to sound mean here.

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Didnt call you a liar. I told you why preach it to everyone. No need and doesnt change anything.

The ONLY reason I see you putting that there was to make them feel bad for you to get your ban removed. My whole family works with special needs and not once have they told people “I have special needs”… because there is NO reason for them to tell people that.

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Hi thank you for reply back Sorry ask them for evidence Thy didn’t. Give to me and they want poof that I don’t do it and the program that I had on my screen was steam and five m and discord that I don’t download for modd or hacking program.
It not fair to banned people with no evidence and I was cry so bad and they didn’t list to me

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They don’t need to supply you with evidence.

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Is the banned appeal Please help me out. I am so cry and upset

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You cannot appeal. Please create a new thread if you have any more questions. Wait it out.